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Salaries in Lyon

Ames4

I’ve received a job offer of around $120,000 gross (pre-tax), inclusive of bonus, to work in Lyon.  I’m married with two small children.  We have no idea what my husband would do, as his job type doesn't transfer that easily outside the US context.  So we assume we’d be highly reliant on my income for the first year or two.  We are very excited about moving to the EU and France particularly (my French is pretty competent), but concerned about money.  We cumulatively make several multiples of the salary I’d have in Lyon in the US.  We save for college and retirement and pay a lot for preschool now, and children’s activities (summer camp, soccer, dance, etc), and I realize some of those considerations go away if we stay in France for the long haul.  But on this salary, could we afford to live comfortably?  by that I mean: 1) a house or apartment with 3 bedrooms and an office in a pretty, safe, leafy neighborhood in or within 15 minutes of Lyon; 2) to send our elementary age child to international school for a year or two until his French is better; 3) travel to US to see family 2 times a year; 4) can go on vacation in Europe in the summer in France or its neighbors; 5) eat out sometimes/have some money left for fun.

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fluffy2560

I hope you realise we know you posted the same thing on the Sweden forum.  If you are a researcher, then just say so and don't waste people's time.


Anyway, that's about EUR 102K.  We should work on EUR in Europe. 


I don't know what you do for work but it's not bad in my mind.  But then again, I don't live in France.   Here in Hungary that'd be a very nice salary indeed. 


Taxes will be higher but you won't have to worry about things like health insurance quite as much. And you'll have a lot more of a relaxed life living en France than the USA and plenty of side benefits like reduced working weeks, nice weather, wine and extremely nice food.


International school will probably be really pricey.  Don't know old your kids are.  Kids are mega adaptable anyway.  No doubt they'd pick up French in a year if they are under 8.  They'll be really confused but they are super sponges so nature will take its course.


Maybe your SO could do home based work.  There are lots of things one can do online these days.  Write a book for expats or do YT or TikTok videos about the experience.  It's an opportunity.


As long as you keep it all grounded and treat it as an learning experience cum adventure, you'll be fine.


Try this for comparisons - I stuck Atlanta GA in vs Lyon, La Belle France.

Ames4

Not a researcher.  Have multiple offers.  Thank you!

fluffy2560

Not a researcher. Have multiple offers. Thank you! - @Ames4


Sweden would be more my choice for "sensible" living in line with my Northern European upbringing and the Swedes language skills are legendary.


But Lyon would certainly be more exotic and with easy access to plenty of places like the Med for water and Alps for skiing.


On balance, I'd probably go for France. My French is rubbish (school level) so it'd be harder to assimilate but I don't think you can beat the location, history and potentially the weather.

SimCityAT

@fluffy2560

France is cheaper than Sweden.

fluffy2560

@fluffy2560France is cheaper than Sweden. - @SimCityAT


On balance, it looks about the same:



My guess is that QoL (Quality of Life) is likely to be very high in Stockholm in many areas but taxes would be swingeing.   


There are however many reports of violence there in immigrant communities.  Not the model Sweden I heard of as a kid.   I expect similar stuff in Lyon but they have had immigration from their colonies for many more years I think than Sweden.  They might deal with it better.  I really have no idea.


Once again, Swedish health care is likely to be much cheaper and more accessible than in the current USA environment. And the politics less poisonous.

Ames4

Yes, weirdly, the costs outside of Stockholm are much lower and similar to Lyon from what I can see.  The tax agreements with the US for the two countries are different but possibly in ways that don’t matter until retirement.  I’ve looked at Numbeo but there are so many expenses we bear now that may not exist in the EU (like summer camps that are $700 per week in our area and necessary if you work).  And maybe some costs in EU we haven’t thought about.

fluffy2560

Yes, weirdly, the costs outside of Stockholm are much lower and similar to Lyon from what I can see. The tax agreements with the US for the two countries are different but possibly in ways that don’t matter until retirement. I’ve looked at Numbeo but there are so many expenses we bear now that may not exist in the EU (like summer camps that are $700 per week in our area and necessary if you work). And maybe some costs in EU we haven’t thought about. - @Ames4

There are summer camps but they will be organised with things like scouting groups.  It wouldn't ever cost $700.  That's just nuts.   In one sense,  why bother? Instead of sending kids away, don't forget you'll work far less hours in France and have much longer holidays (the entire country leaves for August).  There's opportunity to spend more quality time with them.   You can always hire an au pair.


It'll be different later when they want to go away with their friends and many schools in Europe organise things like skiing weeks. I expect it will be almost compulsory to send them skiing seeing as Lyon is right next door to the Alps.  It'll cost hardly anything to send them skiing for a week.


I don't know about France but kids don't always go to school at an early age.  They often start when they are 6 which is late by my country (UK) standards.  And you or someone will have to be around to take them to and from school if it's too far to walk.    Many kids will go to school in the immediate vicinity of your house/apartment.  They can walk there themselves once they know the way and can go in group with their friends who will live very close or next door.   


Walking places and public transport is common in European towns/cities.  Our kids (well, actual adults and close to adults) just go on the bus/tram.  They've been doing it years.


BTW, here, in my adopted country, kids have to be of a certain weight (to show ability to carry books/bags) and must be vaccinated to attend school.  It will likely be the same in France.  Anti-vaxxers will have to do home school.


Instead of me chipping in and talking about France, a country I don't know in detail, you need someone who lives there to say something about it.  I've been to France many times but I've never lived there.  It's a very popular place with many people from the USA.  We (well me anyway) don't see it really as foreign.  It's just different to here but not unfamiliar.  Everywhere is Euro-normal these days.   Brexit hasn't helped much sustain my view.


If you want to see a really bad Numbeo comparison, compare Dublin to Budapest.  Madness.