º£½ÇÂÒÂ×

Marrying a foreigner on Germany is shrowded in layers of buerocracy and obscure paperwork (all of which need to be officially translated into German). It can take many months to prepare everything.
That's why most couples marry elsewhere. Denmark is said to be easy.
You can apply for a family reunion visa (FRV) for Germany after that. (The precondition is at least A1-level German language, but otherwise the process is straightforward. Processing times are 1 - 6 months, depending on your country's German embassy and the authorities of your intended residence in Germany.)
If you want to marry here and stay on, you must enter the country on a marriage visa (to be applied for at the German embassy) and convert it to a residence permit after the wedding. Marrying while on another visa is possible, but then the residence permit or FRV must be applied for in your country. However, the local foreigner offices (Ausländeramt) do sometimes interpret this loosely, I heard, so it is worth contacting the one in charge of your intended residence to ask what is possible and what not.

Many thanks again for your response. I appreciate the help

Just so I'm clear on this, please can you correct if wrong?

Option 1: get married in Denmark (I have heard about this actually). Return to UK separated. Apply for reunification visa whilst I'm back in the UK. Wait 1 - 6 months for this to be processed (seems long?). With this visa would automatically be applied working rights. Once granted, apply for permanent residency after about a month? Or is permanent residency assumed with visa as well as working rights?

Questions: will this allow us to be together in Germany sooner than option 2? Will this create no complications in recognising the family reunification visa?

Option 2: get married in Germany. Apply for marriage visa (I think I've seen this actually ). Get married in Germany once I'm over there. Once married, go to convert this to residency.

Questions: option 2 seems easier on my initial impressions? And would allow me to be in Germany sooner? And work sooner? But I may have misinterpreted things?

Again, thanks for your help. I find it all a bit confusing, so any simplicity you can provide would be great

Also, I have just received this from the embassy?

as a British citizen you are eligible to travel to Germany, get married there and apply for a residence permit on the basis of family reunion locally at the immigration office "Auslaenderbehoerde". However this must not take longer than your permitted stay of 90 days. Once you have filed an application you may remain in Germany until approved. Please bear in mind that an A1 language certificate is mandatory.

I’m super confused now. So I don’t need a special visa to get married in Germany? They make it sound relatively simple...

Sorry, but there is no simplicity, and certainly no clear answer about timelines when dealing with German buerocracy!
I'll try to answer your questions one by one:
- The embassy will, after an initial check, send your FRV application to the authorities of the town where you intend to live. These authorities take as long as they want - and the embassy cannot influence this or tell you how long it will be. Once they are done, the embassy gets the papers back and will contact you for the issuance of the actual FRV.
- The FRV includes working rights in most cases, but after your arrival you still have to register at the town hall, then get the residence permit (initially for a year, a permanent one is only available after three years) from the local Ausländeramt (some of them are so overworked that getting an appointment already takes over a month!) and THEN you can apply for the actual work permit at the local Arbeitsagentur. After that is issued, you can work.
That at least was the procedure a few years ago.
- To marry in Germany, friends of ours (he German, she non-European) needed 6 months (and over thousand Euros in translation fees) for the pre-marriage paperwork. Again, this was several years ago and is likely to vary greatly with your country's authorities and the local Standesamt (family registry).
- The link you sent for the marriage visa says you could start work right away. I doubt that, because it means that the work permit would be included in the residence permit (but they are issued by separate offices!). Question this point at the embassy and let them give you a reply in writing!
I am assuming here that UK citizens are treated like any other non-EU citizen. If not, things might be easier. (EU citizens can freely settle and work anywhere, at any time, and do not have to bother with any of the above except the registration. So blame Brexit for your woes!)
By law, German officials (incl. embassies) have three months to react to an application etc. React could just mean a letter telling you why it takes longer.

Your latest message above, which crossed with my reply, means there are special procedures for UK citizens and things will be easier for you, at least for option 2.
So you can after all enter Germany on a tourist visa, get married and apply for the FRV in Germany. Once applied for, you can remain in Germany even after the tourist visa expires until the FRV is issued. (But you cannot work during that time.)

In my opinion I would probably get married in Germany. I am not married at all so I can't contribute to the process but I will say if you marry in a different country you will more than likely have to get it translated into German. For me, I am going to be applying for Ausbildung as a Nurse and I had to get all of my certificates and high school classes translated into German from English. It has been 3 months so far and it has not been completed yet. I think with the whole corona situation, lockdowns, they are a bit behind. If you marry in Germany it sounds like it would take a lot of time but at least you wouldn't have to have things translated.

beppi wrote:

Your latest message above, which crossed with my reply, means there are special procedures for UK citizens and things will be easier for you, at least for option 2.
So you can after all enter Germany on a tourist visa, get married and apply for the FRV in Germany. Once applied for, you can remain in Germany even after the tourist visa expires until the FRV is issued. (But you cannot work during that time.)

Once again, thank you so much for the help! So regardless (and now probably cross-referencing with my other forum post!) I will still need to wait to get a work permit, even once married (however this marriage is done) ?

This all seems quite complicated to be honest - would you recommend engaging legal help / guidance for all this? Or will I just be able to get through it myself?

To strip all these questions back to their most basic: I want to move to Germany to be with my partner, and looking for ways to ensure I can do this whilst remaining employed! I'm trying to plan in my head (even just having a rough idea) of what this can look like, with some rough idea of timescales.

And yes - don't get me started on Brexit. Myself and 50% of the UK (actually, probably more than 50% now!) is completely against Brexit!!

cpaulson wrote:

In my opinion I would probably get married in Germany. I am not married at all so I can't contribute to the process but I will say if you marry in a different country you will more than likely have to get it translated into German. For me, I am going to be applying for Ausbildung as a Nurse and I had to get all of my certificates and high school classes translated into German from English. It has been 3 months so far and it has not been completed yet. I think with the whole corona situation, lockdowns, they are a bit behind. If you marry in Germany it sounds like it would take a lot of time but at least you wouldn't have to have things translated.

Thank you. Why do you need to get your highschool certificates translated? What is that about? 

You could, if you are o.k. with the costs, engage an immigration lawyer.
But moving to a foreign country with no break in employment  is unrealistic (unless deployed by your company).

Since German is the official language here, foreign paperwork submitted to the authorities must be translated. This includes educational certificates, of course.

You will also find some info from Brits in the same shoes as you.

Good Luck

beppi wrote:

You could, if you are o.k. with the costs, engage an immigration lawyer.
But moving to a foreign country with no break in employment  is unrealistic (unless deployed by your company).

Since German is the official language here, foreign paperwork submitted to the authorities must be translated. This includes educational certificates, of course.

I completely agree that no break is unrealistic, but I guess it’s just how long. And the part about waiting to even get the working rights has made things seems a bit longer. But maybe I can interview for positions whilst waiting for this? With the knowledge that it is coming (at some point) ?

And my partner can help with translating

Ollyver27 wrote:

And my partner can help with translating

Any official documents need to be translated by a CERTIFIED translator preferably based in Germany, no exceptions. They cannot be done by a spouse even if they know the languages perfectly. Some such things seem ridiculous since any German would understand anyway but those are the rules. Expect to pay at least 100 Euros/page - even if a document is just a sentence or two.

TominStuttgart wrote:

Ollyver27 wrote:

And my partner can help with translating

Any official documents need to be translated by a CERTIFIED translator preferably based in Germany, no exceptions. They cannot be done by a spouse even if they know the languages perfectly. Some such things seem ridiculous since any German would understand anyway but those are the rules. Expect to pay at least 100 Euros/page - even if a document is just a sentence or two.

Thanks. What exactly would I need to get translated? Assuming that I won’t go down the self-employed / remote working route.

Ollyver27 wrote:

TominStuttgart wrote:

Ollyver27 wrote:

And my partner can help with translating

Any official documents need to be translated by a CERTIFIED translator preferably based in Germany, no exceptions. They cannot be done by a spouse even if they know the languages perfectly. Some such things seem ridiculous since any German would understand anyway but those are the rules. Expect to pay at least 100 Euros/page - even if a document is just a sentence or two.

Thanks. What exactly would I need to get translated? Assuming that I won’t go down the self-employed / remote working route.

Did you check out the site I gave you?